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Twitter and Visual Studio Rant

Molly Rocket · 158K views · 2020-04-05 · 38:20

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Overview

Casey Muratori responds on-stream to a dismissive Twitter post by demonstrating how slow Visual Studio's startup and debugger watch window are, comparing it to much older software and machines. It is a long rant about software performance and bloat.

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HN commenters cite it as the canonical concrete demonstration that modern developer tools got slower despite vastly faster hardware.

Recommended by 3 HN people across 3 months · HN mentions 2020–2026

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What people said

jiggawatts · 2024-05 · Recommendation

Casey Muratori has some great YouTube videos (a.k.a.: rants) about the end-user visible performance degradation over the last two decades despite computers becoming 10-100x faster by various metrics. E.g.: Visual Studio Rant [VIDEO] How fast should an unoptimized terminal run? [LINK] The root cause is that Microsoft simply doesn't have performance as a priority. It's not a KPI for (almost) anyone, certainly nobody in the desktop teams. Upper management doesn't prioritize input latency over telemetry or advertising "features". It's that simple. There's no pressure, no rejection of slow code, no metrics, no pride in good engineering. If it barely functions, it's good enough to ship.[1] Microsoft employees will occasionally comment to say otherwise, but their statements are contrary to easily verifiable facts, such as massive performance degradations in trivial tools such as the new Notepad, the new Terminal, and the Calculator app. The actual specific technical reasons include: - Executables used to be loaded from disk one 4KB page at a time. Execution could start as soon as the first 4KB block was loaded. For a long time now, executables are digitally signed using a hash like SHA1 or SHA256, which means that large executables can't actually start running any code until the entire file is loaded. The obvious fix -- that didn't occur to anyone at Microsoft -- is to use a Merkle tree hash instead of a linear, single-threaded, whole-file hash like SHA256. - Similarly, anti-malware

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yakubin · 2021-08 · Recommendation

I try to use a debugger whenever I can. Unfortunately, I develop on Linux, so the debugger situation here is awful. Basically almost all debuggers are based on gdb or lldb in true Unix fashion parsing text to generate a GUI... They tend to break really fast IME, since text doesn't provide good stability/reliability guarantees (no type checking, no nothing) and even when they do work, there is a lot of visual delay in the feedback loop, which makes them a pain to use. Another problem is that often the debug builds of things at work run too slow to be practical, or they're too big to fit on the target device. My use of debugger at work usually boils down to getting and translating stack traces from core dumps we receive (on command line). There is a very rare occasion that I can do something on my local machine and then I use a debugger. Life is too short for 15-45 minute add logs + compile cycles. I also use bpftrace whenever I can. At home I write Rust, but IME templates don't play well with the debugger, so I usually fall back on prints and bpftrace again. But generally I'm convinced that using debuggers could be a big productivity boost. Here[1] you can see a demonstration of how smooth working with a debugger can be, in this case it's RemedyBG. But forget about this level of comfort on Linux. The whole video may be also worth watching if you like rants and want to see how Visual Studio debugger quality dipped over the years (first the current VS debugger is shown, and then

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nv-vn · 2020-05 · Recommendation

It may be true that people are partially looking back in rose-tinted glasses, but there's more than just an inkling of truth to their side. Casey Muratori (game developer for the Witness) has a really good rant [1] about bloat in Visual Studio specifically, where he demonstrates load times & the debugger UI updating today vs on an Pentium 4 running XP. Whether or not you attribute the performance difference to new features in Win10/VS, it's worth considering the fact that workflows are still being impacted so significantly on modern hardware. We were able to extract 100s of times more out of hardware and gave it up for ??? [1] [VIDEO]

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Sources

Video by Molly Rocket, played through YouTube.

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