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Linus Torvalds on why desktop Linux sucks

gentooman · 2.2M views · 2021-03-27 · 11:07

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Overview

Excerpts from Linus Torvalds's DebConf 14 talk on why desktop Linux struggles. He covers application distribution, distros breaking backwards compatibility, wasted package management effort and how Windows does app distribution better.

On Hacker News

Cited constantly in Flatpak, packaging and ABI-compatibility debates as Linus's blunt, insightful take on shipping software for Linux.

Recommended by 5 HN people across 5 months · HN mentions 2021–2026

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What people said

Gareth321 · 2023-07 · Recommendation

> You accumulate software yes, but you also accumulate habits and knowledge. Changing OS means discarding all the accumulated knowledge, which 0% of "normal users" want to do. I only ever hear Linux users make this argument. Mac users are confident enough in MacOS UX that they know it’s not a significant barrier to transition. The same is not true of Linux. So many solutions to problems require opening the CLI, and that’s just an automatic fail for the vast majority of consumers. Honestly, I would like Linux fans to just accept Linux for what it is: an amazing kernel with incredible GUIs built by and for developers. App developers just do not care about (or do not have the resources for) making simple and intuitive software. Valve is a welcome and notable exception with the Steam Deck. Linus Torvalds explains it perfectly: [VIDEO]

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jiggawatts · 2021-11 · Recommendation

I watched a great rant by Linus T himself on how distributing code for Linux is a "pain in the arse", but is comparatively easier on Windows and MacOS: [VIDEO] Something I took away from that is that it is Linus himself, personally, that is responsible (in a way) for Docker existing. Docker depends on the stable kernel ABI in order to allow container images to be portable and "just work" stably and reliably. This is a "guarantee" that Linus gets shouty about if the kernel devs break it. Docker fills a need on Linux because the user-mode libraries across all distributions are a total mess. Microsoft is trying to be the "hip kid" by copying Docker into Windows, where everything is backwards to the Linux situations: The NT kernel ABI is treated as unstable, and changes as fast as every few months. No one ever codes directly against the kernel on Windows (for some values of "no one" and "ever".) The user-mode libraries like Win32 and .NET are very stable, papering over the inconsistency of the kernel library. You can run applications compiled in the year 2000 today, unmodified, and more often than not they'll "just work". There just isn't a "burning need" for Docker on Windows. People that try to reproduce the cool new Linux workflow however are in for a world of hurt, because they'll rapidly discover that the images they built just weeks ago might not run any more because the latest Windows Update bumped the kernel version. I read all the way through this and wept: [LINK]

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KiranRao0 · 2021-08 · Recommendation

I remember a Linus Torvalds video on this exact problem. I found it both blunt at insightful: Linus Torvalds on why desktop Linux sucks : [VIDEO]

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Sources

Video by gentooman, played through YouTube.

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